Wealth Strategy for Doctors & High-Earners

With the unreliability of stock markets for retirement and the fear of running out of money, the benefits of investing in real estate for high-income earners are unmatched. By investing in real estate, individuals can offset their income with depreciation, effectively reducing their tax rates. Real estate typically appreciates over time, keeping up with inflation. Additionally, rents tend to increase, providing a steady income stream for investors.

The constant potential for rent hikes, combined with the appreciation of properties, offers financial stability, contrasting with the uncertainties of other investments like stocks or 401ks.

Real estate has always been a gold standard for investors looking for reliable returns. However, passive real estate investing takes it a notch higher, offering a blend of stability and passive income. By understanding its nuances, one can harness its full potential.

Active vs. Passive Investing

Active investing, like owning and managing short-term rentals, can offer large returns but also requires a larger time commitment and can be unpredictable. Passive investing, on the other hand, like investing in real estate syndications or funds, can offer solid returns without the management headaches.

The Silver Lining in Failure

Every venture has its learning curves. Often, setbacks can be transformative, leading us to discover avenues we hadn’t considered. In the realm of real estate, passive investments stand out. These ventures can offer impressive returns without the intricacies of daily property management.

Embracing Diversification in Passive Investments

One of the key strategies underpinning successful passive investments is diversification. Instead of staking all resources in a single asset, wise investors spread their funds. Consider the model of a short-term rental fund that invests in multiple properties. Even if a fraction of these properties underperforms, the others can cushion the blow, ensuring that the overall portfolio remains profitable.

The Magic of Data-Driven Decisions

In today’s tech-savvy world, relying solely on intuition isn’t enough. Many successful passive investment groups deploy sophisticated software to analyze market trends. Such tools can rapidly assess and underwrite numerous properties, pinpointing those with the highest potential for success. This data-driven approach allows for quick, informed decision-making, giving investors a competitive edge.

The Importance of Networking and Continuous Learning

Financial prowess alone doesn’t guarantee success in passive investments. The role of networking is irrefutable. Connecting with like-minded individuals or seasoned professionals can provide invaluable insights and open doors to vetted opportunities. Furthermore, continuous education is pivotal. Such resources empower investors to critically evaluate deals and make informed decisions, setting them on a trajectory of success.

Rethinking How You Earn

Perhaps it’s time to shift your mindset around earning. It’s not just about the amount we earn but understanding how we’re earning it. Transitioning from traditional employment models to passive income streams where your money works for you can be a game-changer, leading to financial freedom and a better work-life balance.

Podcast Transcript

Tom: Hey, thank you for tuning into this episode of the Tax Smart REI Podcast. Today, we’re joined by Jeff Anzalone, also known as the Debt Free Doctor. We’re going to be talking about how high-income earners and doctors can build wealth, build passive income, and minimize taxes through passive investing. So Jeff, thanks for joining us today. Could you give our listeners a brief overview of your background and how you got involved in real estate?

Jeff’s Story

Jeff: Yeah, actually, I got involved by accident. I’m a periodontist by trade, and when I graduated, like most physicians and dentists, I had a lot of student loan debt—about $300,000—and started a practice on my own. Back then, Dave Ramsey was really the only financial guru out there, so I followed his seven baby steps because that’s pretty much all that I knew. I reached the point where we were consumer debt-free and then paid off our first house; that took about seven years, and that was great, you know, the kids were little.

But I reached a point where I was kind of like, “Alright, now what? I guess I’m just supposed to do what all the other dentists and physicians do, you know, work for 30 more years, happily ever after.” And one day that changed because we were snow skiing, and a kid cut in front of me just after I got off the ski lift, and I fell. When I fell, I injured my wrist. Luckily, it wasn’t a permanent injury, but looking back, that was a wake-up call. I had a few other scares with things like church league basketball, but that really was the wake-up call that made me think, “Man, if I can’t use my hands, then how am I going to provide?”

I knew at that point I had to do something, and that started me down the road of seeing how other wealthy people operate. And then I noticed that wealthy people don’t work a specific job for a living; they aren’t doctors or lawyers, they own things. They own assets; most have multiple streams of income, most have real estate in their portfolio.

And I wasn’t doing this to make more money or anything; I was doing it more for risk mitigation. And I thought that I had to be a landlord, so I was meeting with my friends who managed a lot of their family’s portfolio, and they were teaching me how to find a house, you know, a single-family home, this and that. And I really wasn’t too keen on being a landlord, but I was like, you know what, if this is what it takes to help lower the risk, I was willing to do it, no problem.

Luckily, I went to a meeting in Dallas; it was hosted by another dentist, a retired dentist, and he was talking about real estate. And I thought I was going there to learn how to do this, but it was great because he opened my eyes to all the different things you can do passively. Because as you know, for us, our biggest income stream is what we train to do, you know, my dental income is the driving force. So I need to focus my time and efforts on that instead of being pulled away by other things at that time.

And he taught us how to do that, but we could invest in different things, such as real estate syndications and other things like that, where we could passively invest and get all these wonderful benefits and start building these streams of income. So that really piqued my interest in that. And then seven years later, here we are.

Investment Strategies

Tom: When you realized that you had multiple streams of income and that you didn’t necessarily want to rely on your ability to work and generate income, what was the specific investment strategy, or you know, what was the broader investment strategy maybe that you went through? What did you choose?

Jeff: Well, it’s definitely not all sunshine and rainbows because I had failures along the way. At that time, crowdfunding was really big. I think Patch of Land, RealtyShares, you know, those types of websites were really big. So, uh, you know, it was totally on me; I didn’t know what I was doing. I was going on these websites, looking at, you know, pictures of properties, and looking at these returns, something like an IRR or something like some COC. It was like, “Man, that I’m just going to go look at whichever number is the highest.”

And, uh, so I started doing some really small little debt deals, you know, like one of them, they were renovating the house like on the beach for a year. And so I, I did that. I was like a couple of grand, and I started getting a check. I was like, “Hey, that’s pretty cool.” So I did a few of those, and I was like, “Hey, Jeff, it’s time to step up, put your big boy pants on, and do one of these equity deals, these bigger apartment deals.” It was a $50,000 minimum, and it was in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I dropped 50 grand in, and I knew something was wrong because I didn’t hear from them for like 10 months.

And, uh, finally, we started getting some updates, and basically, the gist of it was the sponsor thought it was best to go into a high-crime area in Tulsa and thought that if they dumped a bunch of money into an apartment complex, then people would magically start coming back, but that didn’t happen. He ran out of money and left, and every investor lost their money. Unfortunately, that was a really bad lesson to learn. I wanted to quit, and I thought about it, but I was like, you know, there are just too many people out there doing this, getting wealthy and building wealth with real estate.

So that was kind of the time I started my blog, debtfreedoctor.com, where I started sharing what I was learning, both good and bad. Grew a little following, and then from there, it took me about another year and a half to invest. And this time, I went to a conference; it was a multi-family conference in Dallas. Got to meet not only a bunch of sponsors, which you can’t do that when you’re just crowdfunding, but I got to meet a lot of past investors. And to me, networking was, and is, the key because now I could kind of see the different personality types of these sponsors, who kind of jives with me, you know, and my philosophy.

But then I could talk to the investors because they could say, “Hey, I’ve invested with that group,” or “I haven’t,” or “stay away from them.” So you start to know who’s good and who’s bad a little bit. And then I met a sponsor there, got high remarks, I said I’m going to go in and do it again. Invested in an apartment complex in Dallas, and back then, they were paying monthly. I know a lot of times now they pay quarterly, but put 50 grand in, and it was really cool to get a $333.33 check, and it finally works.

And then I started getting another one and another one, and that’s when I started going, “Well, maybe I can use the Dave Ramsey debt snowball differently and do like a passive income snowball to where I can take my start taking my smallest expenses and replacing them.” So now I don’t have to pay the Netflix bill and the gas bill and the electric bill; I’ve got something else that’s doing it. So I’ve slowly been doing that over the years, and now, you know, my dental income isn’t 100%; I don’t have to pay all these bills, which is really cool. And I share my experience both on my blog and YouTube channel now and then now podcast with you guys.

Tom: That’s a really interesting story, and I think what you put in there, the networking and getting to know these sponsors and really understanding, you know, what their philosophy is and who’s good and who’s bad, it’s critical if you’re going to be in the world of passive investing. So are you still doing those deals, or are you more investing in the type of deals that are investing directly into the real property at this point?

Jeff: Yeah, directly, uh, equity deals into the real property.

Tom: That’s awesome. I’m involved in the same thing. And I just wanted to take a second here to just talk a little about the tax benefits of it because, um, there’s actually a lot of people out there, a lot of high-income earners, a lot of doctors, a lot of people in the medical space that get caught up with the short term at the loophole or get caught up with the real estate professional status but often overlook the power of simply investing in real estate, even passively, right.

So I just wanted to give a quick example of the power of this, right. Let’s just say, and for any accountants out there listening to this right now, I’m just going to use nice round numbers for the sake of illustrating this point, okay. Let’s say you’re making $250,000, right per year, and you’re paying, let’s just say, forty thousand dollars in taxes, right. That would give you an effective tax rate of 16%, probably higher for most people, but let’s just say that for the sake of this argument right now.

Let’s say that you’re investing in these passive real estate investing deals, and you’re getting these checks into your bank account. Well, in real estate, most of the time, the income that you’re generating is sheltered by depreciation, right. So when that happens, you’re actually going to start increasing your income but not necessarily increasing your taxes.

So let’s kind of give a quick example of this. Let’s say that you had fifty thousand dollars that you’re able to generate per year from passive investing, but you weren’t paying taxes on it, thanks to depreciation. So now, you’re gonna have $300,000 of income, but you’re still only paying the same forty thousand dollars in taxes. So now, you just reduced your effective tax rate from 16% in this example to 13.3%. So, in effect, you’re minimizing taxes by shifting the income that you’re generating from an earned income source, like a job or a business, into these more passive sources that are tax-advantaged, and you are reducing your taxes or minimizing your taxes.

So I think that’s a really key point for a lot of people out there who might be listening to this episode right now. If you’ve heard about the short-term loophole, you heard about the real estate professionals test, those are all really great tools to reduce taxes, but simply investing in real estate, you’re already putting yourself on the right side of the track, if you will, from a tax perspective. So I just felt like that was something that we needed to address here. Thank you for walking us through that experience so far, uh, Jeff. What asset classes specifically are you investing in today, and why?

Jeff: Well, you know, also on that same note that you’re talking about, I can’t tell you how many people, not just dentists and physicians but people in general, have told me, “Hey, you know, I was wanting to retire this year, or I was going to retire this year, but I can’t because the stock market’s down.” And they always have this fear of running out of money.

And what’s another way to look at real estate is it’s great because of two things: number one, typically, it appreciates, so it’s going up in value, so it’s keeping up with inflation. And then number two, with the rents, the landlord is, I mean, how many times have you ever rented something, and your rent’s gone down? Like never, you know, so it’s going to keep going up too, you know, in my office, we have to raise fees just because the materials and supplies that we buy, they’re constantly going up in price.

So I think with those two things, real estate is great because you’re not always having to worry about running out of money as much as if you’re just relying, you know, 100% on a 401k or something, too.

Brandon: Right, that’s another big aspect of it as well. It’s, you gotta, we gotta look at the investment properties of actually making these investments, and the rent that’s almost always constantly being raised is going to increase your NOI, uh, for the most part, as time goes on and increase your income. So I’ll throw another aspect at this since we’re talking about the short-term rental or just investing; short-term rentals in the loophole itself.

You know, I have a short-term rental, and I told my parents because my “Hey, should we buy one too?” I said, “You know, it’s a great investment; it really is, like, from a return on investment perspective, the numbers just absolutely crush.” But what holds me back from buying the next one, two, three, or four is that I can’t bunch the time that I spend on my short-term rentals into my schedule in a proactive manner. You know, like I can’t basically say, “All right, Friday afternoon, every Friday, I’m gonna work on my short-term rentals,” because the problems just happen at random times, you know, it’ll be 10:30 p.m. on a Sunday night, and I’m having to troubleshoot with a tenant something going on in the house, the AC’s out, the internet’s not working, the TV doesn’t work, whatever it is.

I just, I like short-term rentals, I’m bullish on them; they do come with great tax benefits. I also think that people get into them without considering the hassle, like what you have to give up; you have to give up some of your time, and it’s random time; you also have to give up some of your sanity because you’re going to work hard to improve the place, furnish the place, and then somebody’s gonna come and wreck it. And you have to recognize that it is a business, and I think that’s like I went into it knowing it’s a business, but what I didn’t realize, I think, is you really have to run it like a business to maximize your profitability.

I’ve had this conversation with my wife now a couple of times where if either one of us could really focus on running the short-term rentals, we could probably increase our net operating income by about 15-20%. But we can’t do that; I can’t do that because I’m running the CPA firm full-time right; she can’t do that because of kids and her side business that she’s running as well, and we’re okay with that decision to give up the extra 15-20 NOI to run it how we’re running it.

But I think people get into short-term rentals for the tax benefit. I think that’s what gets people really excited, the potential for higher returns, but I also think that they don’t, and I was guilty of this myself; you don’t really think about what it’s doing to your time and to your sanity. And you know, the question is like if you’re outside playing basketball with your kid and you get a big text from your tenant or whatever, they’re blowing you up because something doesn’t work, do you really want to reflect on your life and say, “Man, I’m so glad that I got this forty thousand dollar tax savings but had to give up time playing basketball with my kid?” That’s what I start thinking about, uh, that’s what I’ve been thinking about these days is just, you know, weighing all aspects of investing in real estate.

And to be honest with you, I’m starting to lean more and more and more towards syndicates and funds investing as an LP, so that I don’t have to be the one that deals with that headache because I don’t want to look back on my life and say, “I’m so glad that I squeezed an extra 10K NOI out of my short-term rental but gave up playing basketball with my kid.”

Jeff: I’ll give you a different perspective because I have teenagers, and I’m exposing them to entrepreneurship. So if you have teenagers, you know, that may be a good way to, hey son or daughter, we’re gonna get this short-term rental. But because my nurse and ethicist just bought her daughter, helped her daughter buy a house, and they’re, she going to college and she saved up the money, she did the down payment. Well, I talked about, hey, they’re kind of stressed out about getting it around, it’s like, how about doing an Airbnb for now, say, well, yeah, I never really thought about that.

And I started talking to her about short-term rental loophole, and so she’s doing that now, she’s still doing it, and so she’s employed her sister to help clean, so now she’s learning how to negotiate with people. I gave them the, I gave her the book yesterday, influenced by Robert Cialdini, so she’s learning all these different things, how to deal with people, you know, she, she’s meeting with adults; they’re trying to go, “Well, wait a minute, I got to pay a two thousand dollar deposit, can you come off of that some, you know?” Just, just not really so much making money but just learning life lessons.

So that could be a way to get your kid or kids involved in it to take, you know, as they get older. So that’s just a different perspective.

Brandon: That’s a really great perspective, and I’m glad that you brought that up. My wife and I have talked about that too, you know, I have a three and a one-year-old right now, but when they get to 8, 9, 10, we would love to have either more rentals around us like in Raleigh, North Carolina, short or long term, and or like something local, some sort of local business that they can be a part of because I think that you’re absolutely right; like, you get your kids involved. And of course, you know, this is a tax podcast, yes, there are tax benefits, but the reality is like I’d rather see my kids learn how to go pressure wash a driveway and realize, oh, I can make like a summer business out of this, and learn how to negotiate, learn how to build, learn how to run a small business.

But you can, you can set your kids up for success. At least that’s our theory; we’re, we’re still many years off, but it’s cool to hear you say that because that’s something that we’ve, we’ve also been discussing recently.

Jeff: Because I mean, I see what they’ve learned in high school, and one just moved out last week, going to college here, playing football, and it’s, you know, a lot of these kids have General Studies degree to get out like, I don’t have a clue what to do, like, man, you’re 21, 22 years old.

But you know, I had a lawn service when I started in when I was 12, and looking back, I had no clue what I was doing learning, but Looking Back Now, how to learn how to market, how to learn how to sell, how to learn how to keep up with a schedule, you know, this lady wants her yard mowed twice a month, and this lady once a week, had to go collect money, it was just like all these different things that I think helped me to have a little confidence when I started my dental practice too.

You know, instead of just going, “Hey, I’ll give you an allowance, and you’re not going to do anything,” and you know, my 16-year-old is driving now, and he’s been babysitting all summer for a husband and wife dentist couple with three kids. Hey, you guys, you’re worried about your teens and girls and boys and all that, go do that; that’s instant birth control right there, you know, they see what it takes to be a parent, you know, he’s like, “I don’t know if I ever want to have kids.”

Okay, that’s great, son, you know. So, uh, but but again, he’s having to learn his schedule; he has to get up, he has to learn how to manage his money; they Venmo him, you know, we teach him to give, save, and spend. He’s like with Dad, “I’ve got this money, and I’m not making any interest in my account.” I was like, well, so we, we found him a money market account; he’s getting, you know, four or five percent now, first man, so he’s he’s involved, you know.

So anything like that to get your kids involved, and and that I, I think it’s great, it’s a great way to spend time with them because you know, you look up, and you know they’re gone. So that’s that’s another thing too, so, you know, no

Tom: So there’s benefits to investing on the active side for sure. Right, and also on the passive side because you don’t have to deal with all the headaches that do come with active management. Right, so I, and I know I’m, I’m on the passive side because I just don’t, I just don’t want to deal with the management headaches at the moment. Um, in the future, that might change, but uh, that that’s where that’s where we’re at today.So like when you’re navigating, Jeff, like where you are today in your journey, it’s 2023, a lot of crazy things going on in the real estate space, interest rates, all that, how are you kind of navigating this as an investor, how are you navigating the current environment we’re in today?

Jeff: I’m lucky to have, with my website and my YouTube channel, been able to make a lot of connections, so I’m blessed with being involved with really good General partner groups who have allowed me to pretty much co-sponsor a lot of their deals.

So I can see kind of like a behind the scenes, what they’re doing, what the underwriting looks like, what the cash flow looks at, what the, the kind of the game plan looking at their debt, looking, you know, learning about all of that, and then going, oh well, yeah, this is a good deal because of this or that. So, you know, I started off with multi-family and hotels four years ago, but now, with the way the interest rates are so high, and the, you know, literally, the deals have dried up, but short-term rentals, RV parks, and mobile home parks so far this year have been our main focus, is they’ve been great, they’ve cash flowed a lot.

And I know that y’all talked about the unbelievable amount of first-year depreciation you can get from RV parks and mobile home parks, so that’s that’s another thing that I like as well. I mean, maybe you could talk a little bit about that if you want, but I’m not an accountant.

Tom: We beat the short-term rental benefits to death here on the show, so if anybody’s listening to this, wants to know about the benefits and investing in short-term rentals, you go check out our prior episodes; we have an entire series on it titled STR, and then we have in many other episodes, you know, that are after that covering various issues on,

Jeff: and then RV parks and uh, you know, mobile home parks with all the depreciation too, land improvements, and that you know,

Tom: you know, for sure, with RV parks, mobile home parks, a lot of the value of the properties in land improvements in many cases, which um, can have substantial depreciation benefits thanks to bonus depreciation, you see in the first year, you know.

One thing you mentioned is, you know, investing in short-term rentals passively, right, so like like we said before, we’ve talked about the short-term rental loophole to death, and people have to usually be actively involved in that, and it can be rewarding. But like on the flip side, investing passively, having been investing passively in short-term rentals, can you talk maybe to a little bit about kind of what your experience has been with that, with the benefits maybe taking that more passive approach might be?

Jeff: Yeah, I was lucky enough to find a group last year that had a short-term rental fund, and they ended up the end of the year was 71 properties total. You know, I always like to look at a group that has some sort of Niche, you know, like have some sort of, you know, quote superpower, and there’s this very data-driven, you know, they can, they have software and I guess the analogy that I give is kind of like if, if you’re going, you know, I’m not a Taylor Swift fan, but you know, everybody’s going to these Taylor Swift concerts, but you know, like, it’ll say, “Hey, you know, tickets go on sale at 10 A.M. tomorrow,” and you log on at 10:01, and 90% of the stadium’s sold out; you’re like, how is that possible?

Well, it’s because of all of these big-ticket companies; it’s, it’s not fair because it’s, they have the software that as soon as they go on sale, boom, they buy. So they have software that they have that’s similar to that, so as soon as single-family homes hit the market, boom, they can underwrite, I don’t remember what the number was, 20 to 30,000 homes like a month or something, or maybe it was a week. I don’t, I don’t remember what it was, but it was just like some insane amount that they could completely within 10 seconds identify whether or not this home would be good or not.

And they told me there was only about seven percent a month that were worth even looking at, and then they have people that work for them that actually go into that seven percent and then start looking at because, because getting the Val, the value add from short-term rentals is you’re converting a single-family home into an Airbnb; there’s not like oh I’m gonna upgrade it and this and that like you do a lot of times with apartments with value ads. So that’s, you know, that’s how you do it, you know, instead of renting something out for 1500 a month long-term rental, you know, around here in my hometown, a thousand twelve hundred dollar a month homes, people that have converted to three to thirty-five hundred a month in Airbnb.

So that’s the value that you’re able to get. So what I liked about this fund was you put your 50 grand in, or your 100 grand in, or whatever, and you’re diversified over 71 different properties, kind of like a mutual fund. So if you got 10 properties that aren’t doing that well, we got the other 61 that are balancing it out. So that is paying out, and and I was able to co-sponsor that, we’ve been paying out quarterly distributions, they’ve they’ve been killing it, and I started another one this year. So we’re gonna have over, we have a route 25 properties in the one this year, we’re gonna have over a hundred, and the other cool thing about it is if you invest in the fund, then you get to stay in any of their properties, you have your own concierge, and you get a little bit of discount too, so that’s kind of another little perk as well, you know.

Tom: It’s very interesting, you know, the diversification aspect of investing in a fund, I think uh, sometimes overlooked, right. So if you invest in one property, you’re putting all your, you’re putting, you know, I’m saying putting all your eggs in one basket, but if you have a certain amount of capital you can invest, right, you go put into a single property now you’re at the risk of that one property underperforming, not performing. Anything could happen, right, but when you do can put that Capital into a fund that could diversify if you said over a 25 to 100 properties, you’re mitigating your risk significantly for the most part that only one property is underperformed, and then the fact that, you know, in some of these funds, like the one you’re describing, you could go and stay at the properties, that’s like just another added perk.

So that’s that’s really interesting about the short-term rental side of uh, investing for sure. Is there any, uh, tips you would share with others today? I know you kinded alluded to before, uh, networking is super important, but any other tips you would share with people like looking to jump into maybe passive investments today?

Jeff: Uh, yeah, two things, uh, one would be the society as a whole; we’re always taught about you know, go to find the job or go move to the area that makes the most money, so we’re all always focused on making more, making more. I’m making 300 a year, making 500 a year, but it’s all on them; they’re trading time for money. So it’s not, don’t you know, once you once I shifted my mindset to not so much how much I make but how I’m making it, right, then it’s like, oh well, the light bulb comes out, and it’s like, well, I can make about the same and work way less hours.

So start thinking differently about that, you know, if you making if you moving here, are you taking an extra shift or you moving to this town or whatever involves you having to make the money, then is it going to be worth it? So that’s my first thing, and that’s that’s kind of goes over the cash flow quadrant, you know, with the employee, self-employed, and then you’ve got the business owner and investor, whether you know, one side you’re trading time for money, the other side, the your money’s working for you.

So that’s my first thing, the second thing would be, you know, probably the most thorough and best resource out there is uh, Brian Burke’s book that uh, The Hands-off investor, uh, I wrote a book summary on it on my, on my blog not that long dated. It’s, it’s very difficult to get through the first time, but I think if somebody will, will read it and just start to kind of understand it, you don’t have to be, you don’t have to be a syndicator, but at least when you’re starting to look at deals, you know enough to ask important questions.

And I can tell the people that have over 2,000 passive investors in my group now, and I can tell the people that are, you know, more educated, they’re asking, you know, I had some good questions this morning about the debt structure we have on an RV park; he had a lot of good questions versus most people not even, I mean, if you’re a physician, a dentist, an attorney, someone, I mean, you’re a smart person. I mean, you’ve dedicated your life, you know what you’re doing, you know, so this isn’t difficult. So just, just learning enough, getting around people that, that do it, get them to mentor and teach you, uh, I mean, that’s, that’s really the cheat code to life, you know.

Anything you want in life, you want to lose weight or get in shape, find somebody and just do what they do, that’s it. I mean, it’s simple, and I wish I’d have done that early on. You want to build wealth, go follow the dude around its wealthy; you’re like wondering how’s that do wealthy, follow him around for a day, like, “Damn, I know all that dude’s wealthy,” you know, he’s not on, you know, Tik Tok for two hours a day or whatever, you know, he’s he’s hustling, too. That’s my recommendation.

Tom: No, those are all great recommendations, love The Cash Flow Quadrant by uh, Robert Kiyosaki, probably a very eye-opening book for a lot of people, so if you haven’t read it, I would definitely suggest taking a look at it, even if you’re more advanced in your real estate investing career, it uh, definitely, uh, helps frame things up for you. Uh, the next other thing too that you mentioned, the Hands-Off Investor by Brian Burke, I would also have to agree with that, probably the best book on uh, investing in passive investment. So if you’re going to be considering investing as a passive investor, even if you’re a syndicator out there, I would even suggest picking up that book; it’s that good in breaking down like how to look at various deals right. So but I’ll look, phenomenal resource.

Jeff: Jeff, you, you shared a lot with our audience here today, and I know you, your wealth of knowledge, you have a lot of resources to help people understand this area of investing if listeners wanted to learn more about you, or or get in touch with you and what you have going on in your world, what’s the best way for them to do so?

Jeff: Probably the best way is just a website, debtfreedr.com, and if you want to subscribe to our YouTube channel, the link is on that website as well. Basically, what I do a lot of times is I take my articles, and I repurpose them into videos because some people like to read, some people like to watch videos, or listen to the audio. So that’s the way that I try to give back what I’m learning to others.

Tom: That’s awesome, so we’ll go ahead and drop that into the show notes for everybody who is listening if you do want to check that out. Jeff, I want to thank you again for coming on the show today and sharing your knowledge and wisdom with listeners.

Jeff: My pleasure.

Interested in learning more? Contact us today.

Listen to this podcast episode here.